Arrogance in Battle

[Iain]

An interesting passage I discovered reading some of Rafe de Crespigny's "The Three Kingdoms and Western Jin" during the formation of the three kingdoms section he does make some interesting points about 'heroic' generals of the 3K period.

In these circumstances, success in combat depended very largely upon the personal courage of the individual commander, the degree with which he could encourage his men to follow him, and the ability to rally them to his standard even after serious defeat. Though accounts of the time exaggerate the heroism of the leaders, it does appear that the pattern of battle required a direct attack by small body of men, who sought to "break the enemy line" and throw the opposing body of troops into disorder and flight. The officers who could embark on such an enterprise were certainly brave and physically skilful, but they were also likely to be violent and egotistical, and they were not necessarily competent administrators or thoughtful counsellors

Hmm, violent, egotistical and not necessarily competent or thoughtful, I think a few of those cover the term 'arrogant' now what do others think about this? Most 3K warriors were probably alot like what Zhang Fei is often described as, and he seemed to use this ability to his advantage at encounters like Chang Ban and capturing territorty off the feeling Zhang He.

This should in fact make Zhang Fei a typical warrior of the times.

[boogiepopmeup]

arrogant-Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

well yes and no.
it can lead to overconfidence, which can lead to defeat. (cao cao, chi bi)
but using ur reputation to scare off an enemy (lu bu, zhuge liang) is arrogance in its good form.

[Shikanosuke]

I would have to say for the most part yes. Boogie is right in the fact that often times arrogance leads to downfall. However, the morale and fighting quality of the troops depends alot of the actions and reputation of their leader. Also if you look at the time period arrogance on the battlefield was encouraged and rewarded. The lowest soldier would run into the field looking to take a worthy head to present it to his commander.


This may not have to do with arrogance but one thing I must give Cao Cao credit for is his trick with putting his troops backs to the water.

[Sky Scorcher]

Yes and no, because some people use arrogance to foolishly charge ahead, while others use it to instill fear and doubt in a army, like when Kongming died, they made a statue of him, and Sima Yi saw the single statue against the moon. Because of Zhuge's personality and arrogance, it scared Sima off, even though it was a statue.

[Zanshiro]

In humblest of opinions, I think the use of the term 'Arrogance' would be flawed for the description, and thusly, I voted no. For arrogance is like the dark side of confidence, it blinds one to those who are greater than yourself, and prevents you from seeing the truth of the situation. "Honor" is good in battle, as following the command to storm the enemy line, with confidence that you can do it because your master issed you the command/instruction/order, would be FAR preferable to me. That trust and loyalty is rare, however, in this day and age. That same arrogance that might cause one to do that, would also lead a lesser warrior to accept challenges from warriors they had no business dueling solo when they have the numbers advantage. I think this may have been one of the main things that Zhuge Liang / Kongming worried about with Wei Yan...his volatility...and everyone knows that with Zhang Fei as well, but with the pact of brotherhood, they all knew where Zhang Fei's heart was, Wei Yan was more the unknown factor.

[Chibichan]

Personally, I don't care what kind of talent you have or if you're God himself on the battlefield; Arrogance is something that I will -not- stand for. That's why I didn't like Guan Yu; he MAY have been the God of Martial Arts and such as that, but he really had no right to be arrogant and look down upon the likes of others that may have very well stood at his level.

Arrogance can be used to help you and also to destroy you; it was Guan Yu's arrogance that got him to that level or respect, but also, it was his own arrogance that was te downfall of himself and the Jing Province going into the hands of Wu. Had Guan Yu not been such an arrogant bumhole (sorry, but I seriously cannot think of another way to describe him at the moment).

[masayuki]

arrogance is good and bad depending on if you can weild it.... remember strength is only one form of battle but strategy is the essence of warfare

if you are arrogant it will raise you mens moral but you must keep it up with victory or your men will become shocked when they loss and your men will be defeated extremly well and morale will be hard to regain

but if your men are arrogant and they become overconfident they will be surprised if the enemy puts up a good fight then they will loss moral quickly.....

if you use arrogance to scare your enemy and prove to your men that you are right countless times then it is a good wepon

but i will say no because very few genrals can master this