|
Post by Zhao Zi Long on Dec 29, 2003 20:20:37 GMT -5
IMO a horse, especially a good one at those days was even better than a good weapon. For a general, they would catch retreating enemy officers, escape danger, and charge in an army and can't be stopped by foot soldiers.
LuBu was not bought by the jewels from DongZhou, but by the red hare. If GuanYu didn't have the red hare in HeiFei, he would not have slain both YanLiang and WenChong so easily.
|
|
|
Post by SteelDragon on Dec 31, 2003 2:04:37 GMT -5
i dont mean to sound rude, but it seems none yet has responded to the original question at hand.
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Dec 31, 2003 4:49:02 GMT -5
i dont mean to sound rude, but it seems none yet has responded to the original question at hand. Sorry SteelDragon blame nasty old me, I'm the one that brought up the silly horse-jacking stuff. ;D Back to Tiger Generals guys, Zhang Fei is my choice for best tiger since he embodies the very meaning of the word 'Tiger' he was a mighty warrior that scared an entire Wei army into panic just by yelling.
|
|
|
Post by SteelDragon on Dec 31, 2003 5:00:58 GMT -5
well thats all good and great...but im still talking about Ma Dai..as why he wasnt a tiger general
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Dec 31, 2003 5:05:28 GMT -5
well thats all good and great...but im still talking about Ma Dai..as why he wasnt a tiger general Sorry I am really off tonight, Ma Dai I dont think had the same asperations for greatness that other 'Tigers' did, he is mentioned a lot in the book but usually he is just the strong steady general that is always around. Kind of like a Cheng Pu or a Cao Hong, always around but never really famous for anything; I think Ma Dai's most famous moment was when he cut down Wei Yan when he rebelled.
|
|
|
Post by SteelDragon on Dec 31, 2003 5:10:09 GMT -5
but what about his assistnace with the Nanman campaign, if i recall, he succed in the caputre of sever Nanman officers and i think Zhu Rong as well. but you got a point with the mention of Cheng Pu and Cao Hong, both great generals as well but no supreme titles like "Tiger"
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Dec 31, 2003 5:38:53 GMT -5
He did help a lot in Nanman yes, but several other officers did too like Zhao Yun and Wei Yan it was quite the large affair down there and it is not to say that Mai Di didnt do much there, just that others were in the limelight more.
Look at Zhang Bao and Guan Xing, they had just became fighting men as their fathers died and they get huge sections of the book at Yi Ling, Nanman and Wu Zhang, because of their names and that they are continuing tradition too.
Ma Dai just didnt get the same accliam that others did, no perhaps if Pang De had stayed with Ma Chao and if Ma Chao had done more for Shu, Ma Dai might have gotten more fame.
|
|
|
Post by Chibichan on Dec 31, 2003 18:43:16 GMT -5
So Ma Chao's to blame!!!!! Beat him with a stick!
Seriously, I rather agree with Iain...
|
|
|
Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 1, 2004 14:54:01 GMT -5
what about li yan.........he took over the'gr8' zhuge liang's responsibilities when he was gone. wang ping and liao hua too. there r many that deserved it but liu bei wuz prob just playing favorites ^_^
|
|
|
Post by Chibichan on Jan 1, 2004 21:53:31 GMT -5
Playing favorites? Yep, I wouldn't hold that past either Liu Bei or Zhuge Liang... Wei Yan should ahve replaced Ma Chao, but, yeah, I'm thinking that Zhuge Liang's influence (not to mention what Ma Chao did against Cao Cao which is what Liu Bei probably liked) had something to do with that.
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Jan 1, 2004 22:53:14 GMT -5
Wei Yan got ignored by Zhuge Liang many times, I think Zhuge felt he responded better in battle that way.
|
|
|
Post by SteelDragon on Jan 2, 2004 22:29:41 GMT -5
was'nt it also Zhuge Liang's additude towards Wei Yan that caused his actions when Ma Dai cut him down?
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Jan 2, 2004 22:59:43 GMT -5
Yes I think Zhuge Liang was prepared for Wei Yan going out of control following his death.
Soon after Zhuge Liang died and the Shu army pulled back against Wei Yan's desires, he felt betrayed and became angry. And then Wei Yan confronted the retireing Shu army with his 'ally' Mai Dai beside him.
Thus ended the rather dangerous Wei Yan, killed by Zhuge Liang after his own death.
|
|
|
Post by Chibichan on Jan 3, 2004 4:17:15 GMT -5
Wei Yan wouldn't have been all antsy against Zhuge Liang if the wind-blowing bad word would have trusted him more!
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Jan 4, 2004 7:46:58 GMT -5
But how do you trust someone who kills their own master to join you? How do you stop him turning again?
|
|