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Post by Iain on Jan 26, 2004 5:21:36 GMT -5
Three men from three kingdoms who all at one point in their careers did a defining moment that made them truly famous.
Zhao Yun went through thousands of Wei troops with a baby in his protection, and he cut his way through Cao Cao's ranks to save Liu Bei's child.
Dian Wei gave his life defending Cao Cao from a night attack, even while unarmed he fought untill he died allowing his master to escape.
Zhou Tai saved his lord Sun Quan from being cut off from his men twice and shelded his body from harm with his own.
Which one of these brave warriors do you think is the "bravest of the brave?"
And with each major kingdom represented here, this should be interesting. Debating is as always welcomed here feel free to critise other champions too.
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 26, 2004 15:09:56 GMT -5
i have 2 go with zhao yun
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 26, 2004 16:31:24 GMT -5
Sad how he never dies in the battlefield... ain't it? Nope, he dies as an old man in a nice warm bed... wait, isn't that like Titanic except backwards?
Zhao Yun was brave, but I voted for Zhou Tai. Zhao Yun was never injured severely and to the near point of death like Zhou Tai was. I'm not saying that Zhao Yun's act of bravery was nothing at Chang Ban, but I just thought that Zhou Tai's was a bit more impressive; Zhao Yun held the baby safely and did mostly running and striking anyone who came near him. Zhou Tai had to literally go in and fight and probably didn't ahve the pleasure to use a good hit and run strategy.
Anyways... *eyes dart* I voted to Zhou Tai...
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 26, 2004 20:35:16 GMT -5
zhao yun didn't just hit and run he killed well over 50 men 'all of renown' and even stopped 2 pick up 3 spears and cut down banners. zhou tai mearly dashed into battle and hacked away, zhao yun had 2 duel many men, all with a baby (who even fell asleep!) strapped 2 his bosom. i think that's a lil more impressive.
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 26, 2004 21:20:00 GMT -5
Well, obviously two people have different standards of impressive then. I guess it's because Luo made Zhao Yun so unbelievable Jesus Christ on the battle field that I figured that everything was going to be okay for him. Besides, he had a LOT more talent then Zhou Tai, so I suppose anyone could see him do that (I'm sorry, but I read the book after playing DW3, where he was considered a godly character, so I will admit I had some biasness going INTO the thing).
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 26, 2004 21:23:03 GMT -5
Well, obviously two people have different standards of impressive then. I guess it's because Luo made Zhao Yun so unbelievable Jesus Christ on the battle field that I figured that everything was going to be okay for him. Besides, he had a LOT more talent then Zhou Tai, so I suppose anyone could see him do that (I'm sorry, but I read the book after playing DW3, where he was considered a godly character, so I will admit I had some biasness going INTO the thing). *ack*i din' know u were a dw noob *croak*  |
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 26, 2004 21:56:17 GMT -5
LOL, no... a year or two ago I was, I shall definately admit.... had I read the book first and not the games I would have probably had a better view of Zhao Yun... but I guess the game pushed him too much in DW2-DW3, then he went downhill to the likes of Cao Cao in DW4...
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No votes for Dian Wei? He was pretty brave too!
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Post by Iain on Jan 26, 2004 22:18:45 GMT -5
Yes we need a Dian Wei fan here to give us a three way struggle here, Wei fans apply here please we need a evil Cao Cao fan here.  |
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TigerLord
Fighter
Strength of the Inferno
Posts: 94
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Post by TigerLord on Jan 27, 2004 23:04:34 GMT -5
Ok. My vote goes to Dian Wei even though I enjoyed reading Zhou Yun's acts more.
However, speaking purely of courage I thought that going into a situation where you lose your two main weapons quickly, then stand to fight off incoming attacks (armed to teeth some of them) with your bare-hands...now thats courage. I believe it tops Zhou Yun's because Zhou Yun was extremely talented, had a horse and weapon and was fighting and fleeing at the same time where as Dian Wei had the circumstance of 'fight or die'. Perhaps rather it was something like 'fight until you die' or 'die fighting'. This was speaking just on courage not acts of loyalty.
As far as second my vote goes to Zhou Yun. He was vastly outnumbered, in enemy territory, and carrying a (at the time) precious commodity. He not only saved the baby in this perilous and 'certain to fail' siutation but managed to down many notable men.
Zhou Tai was brave, theres no doubt in that. However boogiemepop was right when he said that what he did was plunge deep into a fray, (notice I say fray because there were two sides fighting eatchother not just Sun Quan and a million Wei men), hacked his way in & out twice and brought his lord to safety. Which is a deed praiseworthy in itself. However I think it fails in comparison to Dian Wei and Zhou Yun. Also your right it seemed Zhou Yun was rarely injured but I don't think being cut up in battle makes you courageous, I think it makes you unlucky and unfortunate.
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 28, 2004 20:37:22 GMT -5
blech.....i have as much respect 4 dian wei's actions as i do 4 a lush that gets in a bar fight.....dian wei was just a drunk man fighting 4 his own life. doesn't seem brave nor courageous. he had no choice, it was kill or be killed, whereas zhou tai and zhao yun ran willingly into danger.
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Post by Iain on Jan 28, 2004 20:43:19 GMT -5
whereas zhou tai and zhao yun ran willingly into danger. Well Zhou Tai went after his stupid boss, Sun Quan who shouldnt have been in so deep in the first place, rulers stay in the back lines please what if he'd been captured and forced to surrender Wu to Cao Cao, pretty dumb action by old propeller head if you ask me. |
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 28, 2004 21:05:33 GMT -5
At least Zhou Tai was willing to run in and save his 'idiotic' king... as well as Zhao Yun saving the guy that made Shu fall. I bet those two were kicking themselves in the rear in the afterlife to see that their heroic deeds were shafted by the ones they saved (well, Zhao Yun, anyway...)
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TigerLord
Fighter
Strength of the Inferno
Posts: 94
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Post by TigerLord on Jan 29, 2004 20:10:56 GMT -5
blech.....i have as much respect 4 dian wei's actions as i do 4 a lush that gets in a bar fight.....dian wei was just a drunk man fighting 4 his own life. doesn't seem brave nor courageous. he had no choice, it was kill or be killed, whereas zhou tai and zhao yun ran willingly into danger. Actually, Dian Wei is considered one of the most loyal hereos in the 3k period. After his death is the one time I saw Cao Cao act as a sympathizing human being. You must take into consideration he did not enter a bar, get drunk for the sake of getting drunk and then get mad at someone. Dian Wei was tricked, his main weapons taken from him, and realizing he was in dire straights and his main objective (like all subjects of the time's including Zhao Yun and Zhou Tai) was to secure the safe exit of his lord. He held back the incoming invaders without regard to his own safety. I can't see how you can compare that to a common barroom brawler. That seems just like you have a personal thing against Dian. The only way you can say different is 'well he didnt have to get drunk or fall for that' which is true but neither did Guan Yu have to let Cao Cao flee but it happened. As for Zhou Tai I think what he did was courageous but not extraordinary. I agree that Sun Quan should not have been so deep in the fray but then again he would have appeared cowardly compared to his brother Sun Ce who believed if he did not share the risks of his men how could they respect him. I really respect Sun Ce for that. However, Sun Quan wasn't of the same caliber as Sun Ce. |
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 29, 2004 21:52:30 GMT -5
heh i have no 'personal thing' against dian wei, that's just how i see that.............anyway isn't sad that both dian wei and zhou tai are so well rewarded or remembered by their lords whereas zhao yun just gets yelled at and the thing he fought so hard 2 secure and save is tossed away by mean ol' liu bei. my heart goes out 2 u zhao yun. it's so sad when he goes rushing 2 pick it up again.............i h8ed liu bei at that moment..
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 29, 2004 21:53:43 GMT -5
No, I think we will all agree that Sun Quan was not the war god of the family, but more of the defender type. That's why Sun Ce suggested he rule after he had finished conquering the lands... not to go out and make a fool of himself by forcing his officers to clean up his mess and such.
Sun Quan's more of the 'sit at home and do the paper work' type... leave him to running the nation and leave someone else to supervise the military.
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