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Post by Iain on Mar 22, 2004 20:59:10 GMT -5
well what if Lu Bu wasnt killed So you are suggesting what if Lu Bu was spared by Cao Cao, or what if he held off at Xia Pi and got assitance from Yuan Shu.(the daughter marrage attempt suceeding) those are both possible topics. You mean Wan Castle perhaps? Thats where he died after Cao Cao accepted Zhang Xiu's surrender. Shu would have had the benifit of two great strategists, and probably prospered. He would have died to all the arrows shot at him also.....Sorry, well Wu may have been a lot more offensive against other kingdoms with Sun Jian still leading them. Interesting ideas there Spade, perhaps another member feels like starting one of those scenaros up? Unless the Guan Yu killing Cao Cao one is still drawing comment, I feel we have room for discussion in all areas here.
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Mar 23, 2004 16:49:06 GMT -5
Well, we know that Guan Yu wouldn't kill Cao Cao in his later years, because he had too much respect for the Prime Minister then.
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Spade
Fighter
I shall do what ever it takes to protect my love! ?En Garde!
Posts: 69
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Post by Spade on Mar 23, 2004 18:18:39 GMT -5
thats it! wan castle! i was thinking Wei could have won much easier with dian wei. with his strength! jeez they would be stong..
oh and what would have happend if Sun Ce didnt suddenly die? what would have happened to wu then?
also what would have happened if guan yu wasnt killed at fan castle was it? (the only time wu and wei team up)
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Mar 23, 2004 20:58:36 GMT -5
He died at Mai Castle.
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Post by Iain on Mar 23, 2004 23:04:06 GMT -5
Well, we know that Guan Yu wouldn't kill Cao Cao in his later years, because he had too much respect for the Prime Minister then. Not at the hunting incident, he was full of rage for Cao Cao's rudeness to the emperor. the entire crux of the discussion here.
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Mar 23, 2004 23:07:00 GMT -5
But after serving Cao Cao for a time, Guan Yu came to respect him. This was, of course, around the time of the battles of Bai Ma and Yan Jin.
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Spade
Fighter
I shall do what ever it takes to protect my love! ?En Garde!
Posts: 69
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Post by Spade on Mar 29, 2004 23:07:28 GMT -5
jw again.. Iain, what do u think would have happened if Zhang Jue and the Yellow Scarve Rebellion was successful...
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Mar 29, 2004 23:14:49 GMT -5
Then, China would have gone through several unsuccessful rulings intil someone powerful comes along and unifys the country. It happened like that several times in Chinese history, you know.
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TigerLord
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Strength of the Inferno
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Post by TigerLord on Apr 1, 2004 8:10:51 GMT -5
Had the Yellow Scarves rebellion been successful I bet Zhang Jue would have to fight his brothers for supreme control.
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Post by Iain on Apr 2, 2004 0:43:43 GMT -5
Had the Yellow Scarves rebellion been successful I bet Zhang Jue would have to fight his brothers for supreme control. Welcome back TigerLord, would Zhang Jiao really have had that much trouble with his brothers? I thought they revered him. Also how sucessful a rebellion are we looking at here, destruction of the existing Han armys and all the support units from Liu Bei and Cao Cao? Thats a pretty big 'if' really, certainally the Yellow Turbans got their asses kicked by the much more disiplined Han forces.
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Spade
Fighter
I shall do what ever it takes to protect my love! ?En Garde!
Posts: 69
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Post by Spade on Apr 2, 2004 1:56:02 GMT -5
actually... The Yellow Turbans were kicking the Han's Ass so the Han had to send fliers and ask everyone for assistance. Which in return Lui Bei and the volunteers, Cao Cao, Sun Jian, and Gongsun Gan answered the call.
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Post by Iain on Apr 2, 2004 3:24:17 GMT -5
actually... The Yellow Turbans were kicking the Han's Ass so the Han had to send fliers and ask everyone for assistance. Which in return Lui Bei and the volunteers, Cao Cao, Sun Jian, and Gongsun Gan answered the call. Check your history, the Han forces never lost a major engagement with the Yellow Turbans, in fact generals like Zhu Jun, Huangfu Song, Lu Zhi all were capable men who defeated the Yellow Turbans at every encounter. The only Han general that really stank was Dong Zhuo who got captured first time he met the enemy, later on being embarrased by being freed by common scum like Zhang Fei, Guan Yu and Liu Bei. ;D
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Apr 2, 2004 19:54:18 GMT -5
Its that kind of irony that sets apart the different kinds of men apart.
And about the Yellow Scarves, all they could win was the minor battles where there was no real capable men to fight. The main reason for the fliers was to get more people to help subdue the peasants, because they were the ones who continued the fight after the death of Zhang Jue and his brothers, and it lasted for several more years, too.
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Post by Iain on Apr 18, 2004 4:28:16 GMT -5
Zhang Jiao's revolt seemed doomed from the start, the Yellow Turbans outnumbered the seasoned Han Generals at every battle but many encounters ended with a complete rout of the the Turban forces once their commander was captured or killed.
It was common place for the Han Generals to get great tasks done with very small but highly trained troops. (look at Zhang Liao's strike deep into Sun Quan's forces of 100,000. With just 700 men with him he made the entire Wu force retreat!)
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Apr 18, 2004 11:35:28 GMT -5
And I guess that those 100,000 troops weren't fully trained and experienced.
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