|
|
Post by Iain on Jan 12, 2004 1:14:21 GMT -5
Yes it wasnt really going to be carried out though I bet.
Liu Bei should have had those lands earlier but his indecision and Cao Cao pursueing him stopped all that happening.
|
|
|
|
Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 12, 2004 1:54:30 GMT -5
anyway getting back 2 wei yan, here's a tidbit i found at the-scholars.com ( a lil editted) 2 further support wei yan:
|
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Jan 12, 2004 4:13:55 GMT -5
Actually I do agree with you that Wei Yan got a bum rap from Zhuge Liang (he sounded like someone you dont want to get on his bad side) and was probably used badly in many battles by Zhuge.
Historically Wei Yan was probably better portrayed.
|
|
TigerLord
Fighter
Strength of the Inferno
Posts: 94
|
Post by TigerLord on Jan 12, 2004 11:44:56 GMT -5
anyway getting back 2 wei yan, here's a tidbit i found at the-scholars.com ( a lil editted) 2 further support wei yan: I'm not sure that qualifies as evidence or opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 12, 2004 17:04:59 GMT -5
well seeing as how the author of the quote used the san guo zhi, it would count as the best evidence there is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chibichan on Jan 12, 2004 21:28:41 GMT -5
Hm, yeah, Wei Yan wasn't really as TRAITOROUS in history as he was in the book/game... just like making Zhou Yu a jealous little mofo, Luo Guanzhong probably felt that having Wei Yan betray to that consent would add more spice to the story. Zhuge Liang dies, oh no, now what? BOOM, Wei Yan gets his chance to get all evil abd badda bing, badda boom, suspsnce to a historical novel... there you go.
Historical novels never are 100% true to history, and truth changes through time.
|
|
TigerLord
Fighter
Strength of the Inferno
Posts: 94
|
Post by TigerLord on Jan 13, 2004 0:41:38 GMT -5
Hm, yeah, Wei Yan wasn't really as TRAITOROUS in history as he was in the book/game... just like making Zhou Yu a jealous little mofo, Luo Guanzhong probably felt that having Wei Yan betray to that consent would add more spice to the story. Zhuge Liang dies, oh no, now what? BOOM, Wei Yan gets his chance to get all evil abd badda bing, badda boom, suspsnce to a historical novel... there you go. Historical novels never are 100% true to history, and truth changes through time. I'm not sure Luo Guanzhong was that diabolical. |
|
|
|
Post by Chibichan on Jan 13, 2004 3:08:43 GMT -5
Yeah, me neither, but then again he made up all that stuff about Zhuge Liang summoning the winds and such, and that seems pretty farfetched when you compare it to what actually DID happen in history. It was to make Zhuge Liang look better than he actually was (which was annoying but logical in the same sense). So perhaps Wei Yan's betrayal was a bit over exagerated to make Zhuge Liang look better, even if he was dead.
Made the story interesting, correct?
|
|
TigerLord
Fighter
Strength of the Inferno
Posts: 94
|
Post by TigerLord on Jan 13, 2004 9:06:19 GMT -5
Yeah, me neither, but then again he made up all that stuff about Zhuge Liang summoning the winds and such, and that seems pretty farfetched when you compare it to what actually DID happen in history. It was to make Zhuge Liang look better than he actually was (which was annoying but logical in the same sense). So perhaps Wei Yan's betrayal was a bit over exagerated to make Zhuge Liang look better, even if he was dead. Made the story interesting, correct? Oh that is true. I just think he was probably told stories that way. |
|
|
|
Post by Chibichan on Jan 13, 2004 22:42:03 GMT -5
Truth changes with history, and look at what kids are learning in kindergarden. They're told that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, but the teachers neglect to say that he was 'greatly inspired by' John Locke and other enlightened writers (and when I say 'greatly inspired by' I mean he ripped off their ideas).
Folk tales and bedtimes stories can effect history too... they probably blew Zhang Liao out of proportion, as mothers would probably tell their kids 'if you don't shut up, Zhang Liao's gonna rip your head off' to get them to bed at night. Thus, giving Zhang Liao a great impression of fear and awe.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sky Scorcher on Jan 13, 2004 23:25:32 GMT -5
Well, i'm sure it was something like that...
|
|
|
|
Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 14, 2004 1:00:44 GMT -5
ya, like that book 'lies my teacher told me'
|
|
|
|
Post by Iain on Jan 14, 2004 1:19:56 GMT -5
What was that line I once heard; "History is always written by the winning side" Well then Wu and Shu lost, and Wei got taken over so what is true?
The SGZ (the 'offical' history) was written by Chen Shou a while after the 3K period, Chen Shou's father was an officer under Ma Su at that famous camp misplacement event, Ma Su was excuted while Chen Shou's father was humlated for being part of it (apparantly they cut off his hair and imprisioned him) so Chen Shou grew up with a intense haterd of Zhuge Liang.
The SGZ has twice the information on Wei than it does on Wu or Shu, and Shu officer bios are short unremarkable affairs, then again Wei was really part of Chin when these books were written so the 'winning' side got their due perhaps.
Maybe when Luo GuanZhong was putting together the 'Romance' books he wanted to show more of a even story, because he did take the SGZ bios as reference when doing the book.
|
|
|
|
Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 14, 2004 18:58:55 GMT -5
but then there r also the histories from each region as well
|
|
|
|
Post by Sky Scorcher on Jan 15, 2004 0:49:14 GMT -5
Thats true. Everything is uncertain because each author had some grudges here and there.
|
|
