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Post by Chibichan on Jan 15, 2004 1:42:56 GMT -5
Yeah, if I rewrote my own version of ROTK, I would favor Wu and have some sort of anti-christ thing against Zhuge Liang and Shu in general... but of course, personal biasness would ruin history.
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TigerLord
Fighter
Strength of the Inferno
Posts: 94
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Post by TigerLord on Jan 16, 2004 11:39:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure I would have changed the book even if I didn't like a certain incident or something.
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Jan 16, 2004 20:05:51 GMT -5
Well, there isn't a need to. The book favors all of the three kingdoms in certain points in the book.
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 16, 2004 20:11:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree, though I don't agree with the fact that SHu was overpowering the other two kingdoms in means of popularity, it could have been worse and just gone ahead and remove the third kingdom (Wu).
In the version of the book(s) I got, the person who translated it and such made a note about that and stated that most of Yi Ling was from Lu Xun's biography since there was so little information on it in the original book. Do you think that information was really hard to find about Yi Ling or did Luo Guanzhong try to make it seem that Wu's victory was just a fluke or something?
Luo: And so, Liu Bei died and his son took char- Kid: Wait, what about Yi Ling? Luo: What about Yi Ling? Kid: Well didn't Lu Xun from Wu defeat Liu Bei at Yi Ling and Liu Bei died a year later in 222 AD? Luo: *eyes shift* LIES, ALL LIES! There was no Yi Ling! They were on vacation!
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Post by Iain on Jan 26, 2004 4:46:53 GMT -5
but then there r also the histories from each region as well The scrolls for the SGZ suggest a bit of bias towards Wei though, the total scrolls Chen Shou had were. 65 scrolls of information divided into each kingdom. The book of Wei 30 scrolls The book of Wu 20 scrolls The book of Shu 15 scrolls Besides the bio's theres a timeline with major events that happened during the reign of each emperor, the order usually goes like this 1.Rulers 2.Wives, concubines 3.Royal family 4.Kingdom related non aligned characters 5.Officers(somewhat in order of time of their significance 6. People like Hua Tuo, Guan Lu are in this group (Wei book only) 7. Other tribes and countries(Wu Wan, Xian Bei, Japan etc) You can cross reference some officers going through different books, this is how you confirm history facts. There are 830,000 word characters spread out over 65 scrolls to make the SGZ Some of the Shu bios are very sad affairs only containing a few paragraphs really, so really the bais was on the other side of the spectrum at first.
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 26, 2004 15:22:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree, though I don't agree with the fact that SHu was overpowering the other two kingdoms in means of popularity, it could have been worse and just gone ahead and remove the third kingdom (Wu). In the version of the book(s) I got, the person who translated it and such made a note about that and stated that most of Yi Ling was from Lu Xun's biography since there was so little information on it in the original book. Do you think that information was really hard to find about Yi Ling or did Luo Guanzhong try to make it seem that Wu's victory was just a fluke or something? Luo: And so, Liu Bei died and his son took char- Kid: Wait, what about Yi Ling? Luo: What about Yi Ling? Kid: Well didn't Lu Xun from Wu defeat Liu Bei at Yi Ling and Liu Bei died a year later in 222 AD? Luo: *eyes shift* LIES, ALL LIES! There was no Yi Ling! They were on vacation! well do u think shu historians would be all ready 2 talk about a huge defeat and wu historians 2 praise a strategist that was demoted 4 disagreeing w/ his lord about the heir......and then dying cuz of depression (so i've heard)? this can be best compared 2 the jews and egypt. there is not a single bit of proof that the jews were kept in egypt as slaves, why? do u think the great empire of egypt would want people 2 know that they were defeated in such a way? no.
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 26, 2004 16:26:59 GMT -5
That's kinda arrogant for people to want to cover up their mistakes and faults from the past, otherwise it would not be part of history and we would learn nothing from it. Most Germans I know, when asked about WWII and concentration camps, they state 'yes, it was a horrible thing, but it's in the past. As long as we don't repeat the same thing, things should be fine.'
Luo Guanzhong made a big deal about Huang Zhong's death and gave him a death in battle instead of his original (I think so anyway) dying of old age. You mean to tell me that Luo couldn't add a single sentence or two explaining WHY Lu Xun had died of depression? It wouldn't have taken long for him to write that, you know... but isntead he just gets mentioned 'btw, Lu XUn, Zhuge Jin, and other peeps are dead... and Sun Quan's gonna bite it too, so if you're reading for Wu, you just got shafted'.
At least that's what I got out of that entire chapter... Sima Yi, Lu Xun, and Sun Quan... ALL in one chapter, dead. Depressing... I think I stopped reading the book for a few days before getting the nerve to read on (who else was there to read for? oh yeah, Jiang Wei and Deng Ai... that's it... once they die, you can stop reading because you know that Wu's going to fall anyway)
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 26, 2004 21:27:48 GMT -5
heh i'm german and after i say that i remind people that our ally during ww2, stalin, was a bigger mass murederer than hitler. that's the part people never knew or forget.
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 26, 2004 21:53:44 GMT -5
People in general or certain ignorant fools that don't know better? I guess we teach things differently here in my state, but don't worry, I know what Stalin did (we jsut don't get a lot of Russians here in my states, so I would ask them that too) and yes, it was worse than Hitler. I'm all for pushing that part of history to be discussed a lot in any world or western civilization history class.
Just because a country does not explain in details about what happen for shame of what they did is NEVER right and anyone who denies proven history is ignorant and should be ashamed of themselves for not opening up their mind and accepting the truth.
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Post by Iain on Jan 26, 2004 22:43:13 GMT -5
Well Hitler and Stalin were both dictators and not very pleasant people but we really should stay on topic here, we are debating 'Tiger Generals' here remember not 20th century dictators.
Of course if you want to start a debate on Stalin or Hitler the General forum is always ready start a new topic, heck if we get enough interest we might see a world history forum here yet.
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 26, 2004 22:45:35 GMT -5
Sorry for getting off task...
*is a nut for WWII, almost as much as ROTK*
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Guts
Peon
"This place is the last you'll ever see. Your deaths means nothing to me." - Guts
Posts: 19
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Post by Guts on Jan 28, 2004 3:58:56 GMT -5
never played ROTK is it like DW I always wanted to try though.
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Post by Sky Scorcher on Jan 28, 2004 18:28:09 GMT -5
Well, two things... First, this category talks about the history behind these games, and not the games themselves. Second, ROTK is a good game depending if you have the time and patience to play it.
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Post by Chibichan on Jan 28, 2004 19:03:05 GMT -5
Definately not the quickest pace game, but it's enjoyable.
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Post by boogiepopmeup on Jan 28, 2004 20:11:14 GMT -5
rot3k iz awesome............there wouldn't be a dw if not 4 rot3k
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