"Who did you NOT like in the Romance books?"

[Shuist]

I don't like Sima basically because he was a skinnier smarter Dong Zhuo, but usurped Wei.

[Chibichan]

Shuist said:

Wu was just being a b i t c h. They could have asked for it backed but noooo, they had to kill Guan Yu. Wu sucks. Go Shu!!!

Sorry but b i t c h was the only word i could think of thats appropriate for this situation.

How many times had Wu asked for Jing back? Read the book... the whole second half of the second volume up to halfway through the third volume was spent w/ Wu constantly doing this and that (avoiding war, mind you) to get back the province, and again and again, Shu denied them (not just by saying 'no'...)

So really... the whole Jing Province is just one big mess; no one was good, no one was bad, at least the view I saw it. Shu can't be the 'good' side, because normally if someone gives you a province for TEMPORARY use, you normally give it back without a fuss. Wu can't be bad, because it's an example of Zhuge Liang (and DEFINATELY Guan Yu, I blame Guan Yu more so than Zhuge Liang) pushing ALL THE WRONG buttons with their 'allies'.

Wu didn't ahve 100% right to attack, but I really don't pity Guan Yu... at all. Shu did not gain my sympathy when Wu capped their rears at Yi Ling either, because Liu Bei was a complete idiot. I understand his pain and anger, but, hey, if he'd listen to Zhuge Liang... maybe Shu would have won overall. Who knows?

I can see why people would dislike Cao Cao, but think about it... are you hating the REAL Cao Cao or the villianous view that Luo'
s playing off?

*thinks she hates Luo the most in that book*

[sephiroth]

though i havent read the book i know i'll hate sima yi!

[Tenbatsu]

I like how Kuan Yu dies in DW4XL. He dies with honor! Isn't it because one of Kuan Yu's sons did not send reinforcements that he died?

[Chibichan]

sephiroth said:

though i havent read the book i know i'll hate sima yi!

Actually, I found Sima Yi in the books to be more of a comic relief if anything. Every time Zhuge Liang outwits him (which is obviously alot), Sima Yi always does something insanely funny (the scene where Zhuge Liang gives him girl clothing isn't too bad, and I thought Sima Yi handled it well, telling the messenger to put it on...). Sima Yi isn't really EVIL in the books, but more of a character made to poke fun at until Zhuge Liang dies, THEN he grows a lot more serious and starts showing the 'hm, Cao family stinks, I'm taking over'.

[Chibichan]

Tenbatsu said:

I like how Kuan Yu dies in DW4XL. He dies with honor! Isn't it because one of Kuan Yu's sons did not send reinforcements that he died?

I thought it was one of Liu Bei's sons... his ADOPTIVE son me thinks. Liu Feng.

[Tenbatsu]

I can't remember. I read it in the encyclopedia on the game.

[Chibichan]

Tenbatsu said:

I can't remember. I read it in the encyclopedia on the game.

It was Liu Feng...

[Sleipner]

The contest between Sima Yi and Zhuge Liang was one of the best parts of the book for me, it just goes to show that even if you keep losing you may end up winning eventually.

I liked Guan Yu in the DW games but once i read the book he went down in my view. He showed Wu no respect what-so-ever, even after Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang had agreed to give Wu back 3 areas. It must of come as a shock to him to find his friend, Xu Huang, being so professional.

[Shuist]

I'm sorry Chibichan for giving my opinion. I just think cheap shotting Guan Yu was a bit serious. Basically it's probably just my hate for Wu, because they basically brought down Shu, but I just think it was relly cheap.

[Tenbatsu]

Why didn't Pang De go back to Shu? I have always wondered that.

Wu was not responsible for Shu's fall. It is Chao Yun's fault. He should have said:"screw the kid, i'm going to go watch me some teletubbies!" ;D

[Sleipner]

I thought it was Liu Chan and Huang Hao that brought down Shu?

Pang De was never in Shu. He was in Ma Chao's army from Xi Liang that joined Zhang Lu after being defeated by Wei. When Ma Chao and Ma Dai went to fight Liu Bei for Zhang Lu, (they consequently surrendered) Pang De was ill at the time and so stayed in Han Zhong - which was then taken by Cao Cao and so he joined Wei.

[Tenbatsu]

aaaawwwwwww.....nobody laughed at my joke....nobody give me pity laughs now either.

[Shuist]

Hahaha good one....

Anyway, I did say in a different thread it was Zhao Yun's fault because he rescued the kid. But this time I'm giving credit to Wu.

[Chibichan]

Shuist said:

I'm sorry Chibichan for giving my opinion. I just think cheap shotting Guan Yu was a bit serious. Basically it's probably just my hate for Wu, because they basically brought down Shu, but I just think it was relly cheap.

Yeah, sorry to tell you this, but it wans't really Wu's fault that Shu fell. Yes, Yi Ling weakened them, but after Zhuge Liang and Lu Xun patched things up between the kingdoms, Shu was strong and prosperous again, and if Wu really wanted to finish off Shu they would have done so (granted, if they did, then Wei would have came in after thme and destroy Wu). So really, if you want to blame someone for the fall of Shu, blame the right people.

Also, I must admit that I'm no big fan of Shu myself. Between the three kingdoms, I did not agree with them the most. Liu Bei was a whiner and was not fit for ruling a nation in comparison to Cao Cao, their officers, though talented, were a bit arrogant (Guan Yu being the best example of Big Ego syndrome), and Luo Guanzhong's overall 'SHU IS GODS, EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST' seems to turn me off from them.

Though I prefer Wu myself, if there was a kingdom I had to support, it was definately Wei.

Perhaps if you should read the novel, you would see that all three kingdoms weren't truly conquered by one single army, but instead, corruption within their own STATE caused the downfall of thier kingdoms, especially in Shu with Liu Chan. Blame HIM for the fall of Shu, not Wu's victory at Yi Ling. Wu fell because of overall bad ruling and corruption (Wu was destined to crash and burn the minute Lu Xun and Sun Quan died). Wei was not the true victors... the Sima clan and Jin was...